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Post  Wordack on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:39 am

I was told dragon forms are immune to stun and in the past I am sure I have been but today i got stun spammed is it a bug or was i never immune to monk stun at all?

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Post  Skaldic on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:55 am

Mind immunity doesn't equal immunity to stun fist.
You were never immune to monk stun at all. Wink

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Post  Wordack on Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:03 am

Dragons are immune to stun fist as per dnd meh

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Post  Professor Plum on Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:19 am

Dragons have stun immunity.

Stun immunity stops stun fist.
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Post  Wordack on Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:27 pm

Well it didnt stop stun fist today ;(

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Post  Professor Plum on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:25 am

There are so many dragons! Maybe the one you were didn't have stun-immunity!
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Post  Skaldic on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:32 am

Dragon shape feat dragons don't have stun immunity.

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Post  Herbaliz on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:43 am

Tough as bone feat gives imm to stun, both rdd and pm have this feat but that's it

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Post  Tempera on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:46 am

What I know now is that Tough as bone, remove paralize and a cleric thing KAt is useing makes you immun ageins stunn.

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Post  Rugnarie on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:01 am

I'd like to point out, that you need to be 30+ Cleric for Aura of Courage making allies within the AoE immune to Stun.

Creating a II circle spell that grants stun immunity seems a bit silly to me in comparison.

There were stunners in the past and there were ways to screw with them too. No need for the new spell. Just my opinion on the matter. Wink
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Post  Tempera on Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:06 am

Thanks Rugi Smile Yes it is easy to screw us up. How I dont know, but it is Razz

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Post  -terenee- on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:05 am

All of these changes are great in theory..

Mystra knows I was/am a proponent of much of the change.

The nerfing that has begun here is the slippery slope that has caused greater servers to fail in the past.

There is no point in spending time to level a character if its merits will simply be removed with they prove worthy against an enemy.
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Post  Wordack on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:27 am

True.

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Post  SeXy_SnipER on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:33 pm

I agree with Rug ... what was wrong with needing a cleric around to help allies with the stun thing ... that was the whole point in nerfing clerics to not be one man armies but to help the whole team ... well mages don't need that job also ( and this is coming from someone who doesn't even care for lame monks...)
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Post  Professor Plum on Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:04 pm

Having a cleric around, making you immune to stun, is still better than having a breachable immunity.

Just like, having a cleric cast death ward on you, is still better than using a book.

The problem is that not everyone can gain access to it.

If we apply the same logic elsewhere, how would having no death ward or mind immunity on anyone that cant self-cast it strike you?
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Post  -terenee- on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:34 pm

Death Ward and Mind Blank are used against enemies that have more forms of spells and abilities than a monk
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Post  Professor Plum on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:57 pm

You'll forgive me if I don't think a monks only option is to stun fist, right?
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Post  -terenee- on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:57 pm

Other than stunning fist one only takes monk levels to pad other builds. Feats, speed, Unarmored AC bonuses etc
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Post  Professor Plum on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:19 pm

Other than spells, no one takes wizard. Sad

Plus, who takes lots of monk in a stun-fist build? That's just silly. CoT / Fighter are much better!
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Post  -terenee- on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:54 pm

A single spell is equal to stunning fist.

And I do.. I build a stunning fist monk with 21 levels for mind immunity, speed and gear options, 18 levels of fighter for feats and no option for CoT I choose 1 rogue for UMD.

I could have built 60+ Stun DC but I did not.
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Post  Rann Cora on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:10 pm

Uh, Timothy was like, 15ish Monk or something. More rogue than anything though so I guess I see your point... but he did it with Kamas and sneak attack.

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Post  Professor Plum on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:35 am

A single spell is not equal to stunning fist in any way, shape, or form.

Stunning fist is not a spell.

Stunning fist is an ability.

Stunning fist does not comprise the entirety of a monks arsenal. Hence not all monks are built around stunning fist.

No ability, or spell; which disables or causes instant-death does so without an appropriate obtainable immunity.

You argue that a stun fister would focus into this, more than a pure-caster. I would argue that they don't.

You trade off a few epic feats, as a stun fister, most of which are gained as bonus feats (Which you would have very little to do with anyway) and perhaps lose a few points of AB/AC. While still continuing to have access to some of the best and most diverse items in the game - continuing to have decent hp, saves, speed, discipline, hide/ms and ac - and the option to diversify further and gain access to UMD etc.

A pure caster, in comparison, has comparatively little AC, discipline, speed, hide/ms, saves and cannot gain access to umd. They invest far more feat wise and level wise, for lower dc's, which still have appropriate immunities.

TLDR:
Pure casters invest more. Pure casters have appropriate immunities.

Monks invest very little for a good stun fist DC. Monks now have an appropriate immunity.

Breach is op.
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Post  UndyingKnight on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:55 am

Very well said. ^^

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Post  -terenee- on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:55 am

I can simply say we disagree, professor.

The rest of the spells a caster has makes them far more diverse. They can cast a variable buffet of spells that have DCs increased by a a single set of feats.

Taking Improved Stunning Fist does not also incease my Quivering Palm or Kd.

Without stunning fist a monk is just melee.
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Post  Professor Plum on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:11 pm

Monks, for all intents and purposes, are just a melee if they have a counter to stunning fist?

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