removing chests? good or bad?

Agreed Felix.
I will however not change that UNTIL we know if we are going to keep this Loot System or not.


-TheMothMan

I think Rug is on to something... the key thing seems an exceptional idea. even if you wanted to not make the box need a key you could put a wee lil gate around every set of chests and make the keys open the door to the chest and pick the locks on the chests... just a thought..

That's a pretty neat idea!

Which Plum the gate or the two keys?

I guess the key thing could work for those areas that are straight forward, in the sense that you enter it from one point and run towards the end to get the loot.
Or maybe make it more automatic by having two variables added to two random NPCs in the area and those two needs to be killed to make the chest change from Static to Useable.
So you could not interact with the chest(s) until these two specific NPCs were dead.
This would not only prevent Invis Looting of the NPC-chests but also the Timer-chests, as it could be applied to work on both type of chests.

Not sure how either of those things would turn out in an area that is not straight forward though, in the sense of boss/chest locations not being "at the end" of the area - so to speak.
Or areas that have the chest somewhere in the middle and they have two or more entry points.
Or even areas that have hidden chests and other such stuff.

Another option would be what Sancho suggested;
To have the loot moved from the NPC to the chest ONLY if the NPC dies.
So that you'd have to kill NPCs to "fill up" the chest. The chest would start out locked and then relock on a timer, as opposed to being relocked each time items are moved there from a newly spawned NPC (as it worked before).
All around, that sounds like the better way to me, because it would mean the changes would not be noticeable, unless you're an Invis Looter in which case we hate you anyways. Hehehe.
HOWEVER, this would not prevent Invis Looting of the Timer-Chests.
But if you're lucky those chests will respawn before you reach them (since they are based on a timer) - assuming they been the "victim" of Invis Looters in the first place.

I too miss the joy of rummaging in a chest hoping for some neat stuff on the next page.
It's a lot of fun and it contributes to the gameplay.


Either way, I'd prefer a way that does not involve going over and revamping ever area that has a chest in it, that does something about Invis Looting and can be universally implemented, so the "rules" for how you loot would be the same in the whole MOD.



-TheMothMan

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..

TheMothMan wrote:
HOWEVER, this would not prevent Invis Looting of the Timer-Chests.

How many of these chests are sneak lootable? I think there are only a handful that dont have a TS boss near. Those handful to be altered to allow the boss to have a very high spot and listen so only the best sneaker would have a good chance of not being seen.

Another idea is make a script that breaks stealth when opening a lock. This would only work for chests that have mobs around them. In my thinking most of the timed chests do.

Many good ideas here now.
Keep them coming.

-TheMothMan

TheMothMan wrote:Try it.
Then vote!
Don't form an opinion based on other peoples opinions.
That's how people like George W. Bush gets to be the most powerful man in the world for eight years.

This coming patch I will increase the chance of loot slightly, it feels a bit too low ATM.
These things need a bit of tweaking before they get just right.

We'll see how it turns out at the end of the week.
If it's still not favored, we return all the chests.
And we will try something else to prevent/decrease Invis Looting.


-TheMothMan

Please don't get offended by my lack of willingness to participate in "beta-testing" this new update.
If the feedback of those who didn't like it would be taken seriously then I'd jump on in and try it out with an open-mind and give oppinions based on my own experience of it... instead of an oppinion based on a few possible "facts" which have been stated.

Rugnarie did the math and I'm assuming it is correct that the income of game play involving treasure collecting is now lower -no one argue'd against that even you admited that the loot needs 'tweaking' so this update is far from complete even though it is already implimented.

I really do hope that once it is complete that it was worth the time which could have been spent with chests rather than without.

P.S. you seemed confused by my previous post and my

TheeVals wrote:...('pro'-moths might argue that no one takes lore anyways and can always waste 500gp to identify items... but some people do take lore -less items to id less value on lore.)...

(why else would you add an unneccessary post just of quotes to this topic and clutter it up if not missunderstanding me...)
'pro'-moths meaning players who have play'd this high magic anphillia mod... they might argue that lore is useless.
Yet I can see how you might misconstrue it as some type of.... 'people supporting you' reference ..................... xD

P.P.S. writing in different font sizes is fun! To bad I didn't bother to add colour.

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hundie66 wrote:
Just out of curiosity... This "experiment" as Mothman has stated that this change is, now includes a vote/poll .. How much longer will this "experiment" run?? Since the vote/poll was started shortly after this "experiment" was implemented... it has been firmly in the "No" camp. Will this "experiment" end soon and a decision made?? or are you going to wait until one day, hoping that you can get that few votes to make the poll/vote say "yes" to justify your changes.

Moth claimed by the end of the week.. but it does kinda seem a lot as if they are hoping to not have to undo all this tweaking and work they are putting in.

But it would be good if they did make the system work in a way that it becomes more appealing and helps the people, who have hated and still dislike this whole.. no-chest idea, accept it if it's here to stay...

The "beta-testing" of the loot system, or whatever you wanna call it, is out of respect for you all as a community.
As in not me, or anyone else, deciding arbitrarily what system we should use.
Back in the day on Genesis, when my MOD was the goal of my vision of how things -should- be, I would have just ran over you all and implemented whatever system I thought was best.
However, this is no longer the case and my goal here is to help you all have the MOD you guys want to play on.

I'm sorry if some of you can't see that.

I was under the impression that Invis Looting was an issue and people wanted something done about it - as in being willing to go through the process of finding a new way to get rid of this alleged issue.
But maybe its not and issue big enough to justify our time and grief and everyone involved in this testing/coding just wasted their time.

Running an beta test MOD is an awesome idea Hundie - it really is, in an ideal situation with a very active playerbase and an establishment with a lot of time on their hands.
Sadly, this is not how reality looks and things will have to be done differently - or not done at all.

So what's the worse case scenario of this little "ordeal"?
The loot was -odd- for a week or so.
From my PoV this is totally worth if, if we can find a loot system that agrees with everyone.

And if I seemed rude to anyone with some actual and valid feedback, I am sorry.
I just don't see the point of cluttering a thread meant for constructive feedback with baseless opinions or faulty assumptions - it just tends to shift the focus to things that are not relevant in any way.

Either way, this system has too many flaws IMO and after a night as a DM checking NPC's inventories I can say that it doesn't feel right.
HOWEVER I think the Bounty System is a keeper - but again that's just my opinion.

Undoing these change would take a few scripts being reverted, a full build of a MOD and, at some point later on, going over all chests again individually to set their Lock/Trap DC and appearance (if need be) to what it as before.
In short, a psuedo-revert from this current system would take a few hours.

-TheMothMan

TheMothMan wrote:
faulty assumptions - it just tends to shift the focus to things that are not relevant in any way.

Agreed.

TheMothMan wrote:
Either way, this system has too many flaws IMO and after a night as a DM checking NPC's inventories I can say that it doesn't feel right.
HOWEVER I think the Bounty System is a keeper - but again that's just my opinion.

Undoing these change would take a few scripts being reverted, a full build of a MOD and, at some point later on, going over all chests again individually to set their Lock/Trap DC and appearance (if need be) to what it as before.
In short, a psuedo-revert from this current system would take a few hours.

-TheMothMan

Badgers gave Myra 16gp... do you know what this means!? The druids shall be furious to know that further insentive as been added to eradicate the population of wild life on anphillia... Its bad enough that the GrandForest is a wellknown and used training ground for sport and personal gain of experience, and it's bad enough that many individuals dabble in the skill of prepairing fine pelts for the process of tailor'd goods... but now.. to add insult to injury... to slay an innocent helpless badger can become an even more profitable pass time.

It is no wonder that honey badgers just don't care....

---- No but seriously.. maybe remove the gp rewards from certain mobs if thats possible?
and add back the chest loot system adjusting the gp to half or 1/4th of it's initial value?
and try that whole... an area needs to be emptiedat least half, if not the majority of it. (to avoid moments where a person misses 1 or 2 mobs and can't loot till they run around and find them, wasting a bit of time which is what people who dislike ninja looting have complained about -their time gets wasted because of it...)
Its hard to make suggestions.. I have no idea how scripting works and whether or not the suggestions I've just made are able to be done.

So most people dont like the change of having no chest and having to loot corpses and admittedly it is hard for me to get used to as well. Lets revert back and try another less evasive method.

..

Just out of interest, what is this typical 'sneaker build which can't kill anything by itself' that people refer to?

I've not ever come across a sneaker that can't solo things, some stuff may take longer than others - sure. But it's the same with every build?

The only thing that pwns sneaker is immunity to sneak attacks
TS suxx a lot too, but you can go around that...kind of.

..

..

What is it you have a problem with?

You shouldn't have a big problem with hitting things, being a full BAB class pre-epic. Damage is minimal, but if you can kill something while flanking (With an extra 3d6 sneak from SD) you shouldn't be killing something one on one that much slower. Plus with HIPS you can flank and hit that 3d6 anyway.

The only problem with the build, as I see it, is that you don't have very much sustain (No UMD for heals). But you can run with monk speed, or HIPS and pop a bunch of kits, so that shouldn't be a problem either.

I frequent many!

I think its 4d6 for 10 levels of SD.

It could be 100000d6, you can still kill things alone.

Granted you can't kill things as effectively when paired with another player, but no-one can... because there's like.. 2. >_>