Progression beyond level 40.

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Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheMothMan on Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:03 pm

Hello folks!

With a slow day at work I started working on some ideas for granting players experienced bonuses beyond level 40.

I assume everyone is on board with this idea, because why not, right? Smile

There are two ways to do this.

1.) Add more max levels (and levels to each class) using Overrides.

This method is tried and true on many other servers out there. It works without Haks, but it's not without it's issue. It will also require a huge overhaul of the balance of each and every Class in the MOD.
Needless to say, this is a huge endeavour but it's the only option for doing it right.

The obvious downside would be the work (just a downside for me really), which means it will take a looooong time to get done.
It would also require a wipe (I think) to work properly.

Which brings us to option 2.

2.) Add permanent bonuses (the same way Subraces grant them) to a player based on their total XP.

This way of doing it is by far the easiest and safest way to go about doing this.
The way I see this being done is by adding a new option in the Craft Trap Menu where players can select many different bonuses to their char, the number of them limited by their current XP.
As you earn/gain XP after level 40, you will be granted/lose these "slots".

For example;
The mage Cheesus Crust isn't just renowned for his vibrante clothing colors, has also been level 40 for awhile now.
He has just gained 1.000.000 xp (220.000 xp above level 40).
Cheesus can now use the Craft Trap menu to add one bonus to his newly aquire slot.
There is a huge list of bonuses to choose from, but being a Mage he goes for the "Gargantum Spell Penetration" bonus, giving him +2 to all Spell Penetration checks.
After getting this shiney new bonus, he will have an easier time dealing with those pesky monks!
Sadly, Cheesus stood daydreaming (AFK) in a cluster of hungry Brown Bears and was mauled to pieces, making him lose some of his experience.
Now he only has 992.032 xp and his new cool "Gargantum Spell Penetration" has been lost.
But despair not Mr Crust, after some more training he will have reached 1.000.000 xp again and can pick the "Gargantum Spell Penetration" bonus again OR something else.


This is how I figured it would work, in broad strokes.

My questions to you guys then are;

Do you want progression beyond level 40?
Do you want option 1 or option 2.
Which kind of bonuses would you wanna see?
How much XP TNL?
Anything else you can think of that's related?

Feel free to voice your thoughts!

-TheMothMan
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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  Felix on Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:32 pm

I have always been a proponent of this. I am a fan of setting the cap to a much higher almost unattainable level such that people who fall in love with their 40 characters will not be dissuaded from taking them on expeditions. I would pick method two for ease of balancing and implementation.
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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheeVals on Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:24 pm

I can pass along a list of xp per lvl beyond level 40.. which follows the same progression of nwn.. lvl 1 = 1k lvl 2 = +2k more.. etc...

So you can decide which would be best... every 5 lvls past 40 so the xp amount of level 45... = bonus...

or.. go with random amounts :s

We already have that special thing for people around 900k or so.. a free rebuild (which is 20% of xp) costs no levels... xD
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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheMothMan on Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:16 am

Well it's no science how the progression work, you need your current level x 1.000 xp in addition to reach the next level.

For this purpose a current level x 6.000 might be more appropriate.
So you'll need 240.000 xp extra to gain "level 41" (a total of 1.020.000 xp).
Next would be 41 x 6000, meaning you need 1.266.000 to "level 42".

Or we make it more simple and just add flat number (to make it even and easy to remember) to obtain new level.
41 - 1.000.000 (^220.000)
42 - 1.250.000 (^250.000)
43 - 1.500.000 (^250.000)
44 - 1.750.000 (^250.000)
45 - 2.250.000 (^500.000)

Depending what system we'd end up using, you need 1 to 1½ million xp to go from level 40 to level 45.

That's almost two whole level 40 characters. Smile


As Felix says, we want progression to be sloooooooow.
Let's say we add 5 new "levels", or slots to obtain in this system, then we want it to be almost impossible to become "level 45".

Just a thought.
Anyone have more thought/suggestions?
Suggestions for new feats?

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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheMothMan on Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:19 am

Are there any more suggestions for bonuses for 40+ levels?
Don't be shy now! Smile


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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  OmegaChaos on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:27 pm

I am new to this module but not to anphillia so it is extremely different yet familiar. It appears that a lot of the class diversity has been blended here and I can see why that is necessary. Maybe for the 40+ progression we can add a little more of that old diversity? I propose we come up with maybe 5 new post epic classes and at 41 you pick one of those classes or possibly that class is chosen for you based on your class with the most levels in it. Then the bonuses to HP, AB, AC, SR, Feat choice, etc are catered to that class. This way while 2 lvl 40+ characters might both have the ability to identify anything, unlock any chest, see anything invisible, etc might now have ability to each have something new and unique and need to work together to defeat new harder areas or other 40+ characters.

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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheMothMan on Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:24 pm

OmegaChaos wrote:I am new to this module but not to anphillia so it is extremely different yet familiar. It appears that a lot of the class diversity has been blended here and I can see why that is necessary. Maybe for the 40+ progression we can add a little more of that old diversity? I propose we come up with maybe 5 new post epic classes and at 41 you pick one of those classes or possibly that class is chosen for you based on your class with the most levels in it. Then the bonuses to HP, AB, AC, SR, Feat choice, etc are catered to that class. This way while 2 lvl 40+ characters might both have the ability to identify anything, unlock any chest, see anything invisible, etc might now have ability to each have something new and unique and need to work together to defeat new harder areas or other 40+ characters.
Interesting ideas for sure.
I was thinking more in the lines of granting small bonuses to exsisting bonuses.
But you're right, we could also add other unique bonuses and abilities as options, might be cool. Smile

Any more ideas?

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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheeVals on Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:26 pm

TheMothMan wrote:Well it's no science how the progression work, you need your current level x 1.000 xp in addition to reach the next level.

For this purpose a current level x 6.000 might be more appropriate.
So you'll need 240.000 xp extra to gain "level 41" (a total of 1.020.000 xp).
Next would be 41 x 6000, meaning you need 1.266.000 to "level 42".

Or we make it more simple and just add flat number (to make it even and easy to remember) to obtain new level.
41 - 1.000.000 (^220.000)
42 - 1.250.000 (^250.000)
43 - 1.500.000 (^250.000)
44 - 1.750.000 (^250.000)
45 - 2.250.000 (^500.000)

Depending what system we'd end up using, you need 1 to 1½ million xp to go from level 40 to level 45.
 
 
K... but lvls 41-45 are actually...
820k, 861k, 903k, 946k, and 990k.... Sad 
 
46 is 1, 035k... Neutral 
 
I've only ever calculated my lvls to xp list up till lvl 52... which is 1, 326k... Mad 
 
so why not just make it every 5 lvls past 40.. or 10...that way we don't need to invent amounts... D:
 
either way ooc... if we go by the above requirments.. I'm ganna claim my char just almost hit level 46 and then 5k short of lvl 50 Razz... etc cause it's the right thing to do! Suspect
 
On a serious side note... to make it a bit more difficult to get past lvl 40, disable auto xp at that lvl onwards.. only downside might be this being discouragment to play as a lvl 40+ or go fetch relic since the bonus +150 no longer benefits them... :/
 
Guess the only way to do it would be like every other level... xp for kills decreases eventually... otherwise constantly having places a lvl 40 can handle.. getting 190-250ish xp a kill will take no time at all to pg to get those bonuses.
I recall vice behind halfway to 3 million from helping others get their last few levels, grinding condors and of course afking is how it was accumilated.
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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  Rugnarie on Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:38 am

1) How about the ol' Wings/tales option? I remember Niddy would have loved some sort of make-up, instead people looked at him as if he was a freak and called him Hooves or worse.

2) Or maybe at such levels, you could pick an option to be able to actually fly if Dragonshaped...If Tamars can fly, why not polymorphed dragons? Smile

3) Own houses

4) Is that insane mass-resurrection spell still working? If not, add once/day for pure clerics lvl 42+

5) OWN BROTHEL AND TOILET! I can't believe after all these years nobody has made any of it yet -.-
Very Happy 
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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  Faven aka Undying Knight on Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:10 am

Rugnarie wrote:1) How about the ol' Wings/tales option? I remember Niddy would have loved some sort of make-up, instead people looked at him as if he was a freak and called him Hooves or worse.

2) Or maybe at such levels, you could pick an option to be able to actually fly if Dragonshaped...If Tamars can fly, why not polymorphed dragons? Smile

3) Own houses

4) Is that insane mass-resurrection spell still working? If not, add once/day for pure clerics lvl 42+

5) OWN BROTHEL AND TOILET! I can't believe after all these years nobody has made any of it yet -.-
Very Happy 
These are some neat ideas to give players an option to pick from.. Sounds great for adding on/enhancing role play, I think we should do this along with progression past level 40. If i'm correct the wings/tail could already be done by DM only I believe, but we should open it up to let players be able to add wings or tails from the get go, just for the sake of RP.

Option 2 could be saved for some sort of add on past level 40 if that is possible to do with everything else the server already running.

Option 3 I believe should also always be an option, though it could be done by adding a housing area to each fort, and a list of prices per home, this way the player could save up the gold to purchase their home, and then customize it how they would like via toolset and have it uploaded to the server. (again if possible to fit into the server)

Option 4 in my opinion should already be some sort of level 9 cleric spell.. Swore at one point their was already a spell like that but it could have been on another server.

And  option 5, yeah, I think that is self-explanatory, hehehe

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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheMothMan on Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 pm

Here are some suggestions of mine.
Any and all number values are just estimates and would be subject to balancing.


Note that any selection would have to be permanent, even if you delevel. Otherwise it could be abused with the /relevel-function.


Precipitateness: Adds a fixed duration (1 Turn maybe?) to any Haste-effect applied to the PC, from any source.

Determination: Makes any spell applied to the PC harder to dispel (+5 caster levels in the dispel-check?).

Grudge: Gives the PC an undispellable bonus (+5?) to all Saves and Skill-checks (Like Discipline) for a period after dying (10 minutes?).

Golem Fist: Adds a bonus (+10?) to all Auto-knockdown check (both defense and offense).

Apothecary: Using an allies PC Corpse on this PC will resurrect them (unlimted uses, both allies and PC can use the corpse on the PC).

Retention: Decreased the XP lost upon death for the PC by a fixed value (1500?).

Greed: NPC's spawned my the PC will carry more gold coins (10%?).

Strong Back: Relics and NPC Corpses carried by the PC will weight a lot less (90?).

Master Crafter: Adds a fixed amount (200?) of ATS points to a specific ATS skill. Can be taken multiple times.

Vendor: Grants a fixed (4%?) bonus in all shops. Stacks with Appraise-bonuses.

I-use-hair-products: Lets the PC retain the bonuses from the Helmet even when it's removed. Equipping any helmet will remove the bonuses (won't work if polymorphed).

Boy/Girl Scout: The PC can rest for free in any Forest-area.

Drunk Busdriver: Grants you the ability to park a bus in Rugnaries living room.



Anyone got anymore? Smile



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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  Rugnarie on Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:02 pm

I don't have a living room... :/

I think it would be super cool to have a toilet somewhere in the middle of the forest or something....Imagine the fights! Nobody would fight for a stupid relic anymore, but to take a good shit instead! Twisted Evil 

But I'm done trolling, no other ideas anymore Smile

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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheeVals on Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:03 pm

TheMothMan wrote:
Golem Fist: Adds a bonus (+10?) to all Auto-knockdown check (both defense and offense).

Master Crafter: Adds a fixed amount (200?) of ATS points to a specific ATS skill. Can be taken multiple times.

I-use-hair-products: Lets the PC retain the bonuses from the Helmet even when it's removed. Equipping any helmet will remove the bonuses (won't work if polymorphed).

Boy/Girl Scout: The PC can rest for free in any Forest-area.
Golem Fist- because chargers weren't OP enough... Sad

How about a bonus that conceals a sneaker from True Sight (They'd need lvl 40+ AND a certain amount of hide and move silently...of course)
Is there a way to do this?

Master Crafter- if you can get it pre 40 why would it be an option for lvl 40+ bonus?
maybe make it more like a % of resource increase... so skinning a badger might give two pelts... and mining double the amount of ore before it breaks...
OH! portable forge/crafting placeables...?
Instead of giving skill points.. this bonus could make it so a player can smelt their ores anywhere or harden hides/craft their tailored good (if having proper materials..)
-could be as simple as giving them access to the dialogues through the crafting skills menu.
(It could be easy to rp a PC using their surroundings to do their crafting... so there might not be a need for the visual aid of a temporary forge being placed...)

Hair Products- certain shapes of a shapeshifter have tuns of hair to put products in... D:

boy/girl scout- there are only a number of reasons a lvl 40 would need to rest in the grand forest... unless other foresty type places will count as well, like Grim Pass-Hope Canyon-Loriette forest / Raut Fort

Perhaps we could have one where the PC can summon their own npc ally, as powerful as a marduk...? Or even two?
Could make them only work;
during defense,
during defense and assaults,
(to avoid people spawning them up on the cliff make it a self use item and hope no one tries to glitch them up there by hugging the cliff while spawning them...)

anywhere
(so they can assist in pve... wonder how they'd fair)

Anywhere... with a bonus/boost while they are in Summan Vally/Rustin road/Temples during a defense of the fort.
(Ideal for the situations where a team attacks and there is only 1 lvl 40 active to defend the fort...)
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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheMothMan on Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:44 am

I imagined the bonuses being, small, useful and cosmetic.
All on the same level.
Really hard to obtain, but once you have them they will either give you a small-small advantage in PvE, PvP or on the catwalk.
Just enough to give you the upper-hand against an opponent or in a coolness competition.

There is a way to make a PC totally invisible to everything. But it's way too powerful and can you just imagine the ways it could be abused? I can think of 8 game breamking things without even trying. Smile
Just a bad idea for this MOD. Very Happy

Summons Marduk-style NPC's to fight for you is just crazy! Let alone TWO! Very Happy
They would clean out an high level area with ease and just make every challange in the MOD look pathetic. Smile
Not to mention that you then would have to come up with 10-15 other bonus abilities equally powerful, which would just crumble the entire balance of the MOD, hehe.

But some sort of summon might be a cool idea - it's a good idea, I just feel there are plenty of those already.
But if the summon could fill some unique role, it might be cool.

The portable crafting thing is a cool idea too. I really like that.
Maybe combine that with the summon-idea and make some more permanent mule that carries an anvil and a small forge with tools.

Auto-Knockdown isn't the same as a Fighter Charge. But I suppose most who have one, have the other.

There are plenty of level 40's with no ATS points whatsoever. Or just a few points. Seems like something that someone might wanna spend bonuses on.
It's essentinally ATS points bought with XP.
I think increasing the yield while crafting is possible, I know increasing the success chance is possible at least. It might be a good idea.

The reason 'I-use-hair-products' wouldn't be availible while polymorphed is because of how the bonuses would be merged. It's not an RP reason.

Forest areas are areas with trees. Except for Rural. Well, maybe Rural too. Razz

Some cool idea here.
But we need more.
A lot more.
Time to wash of the clown makeup Rugi and come up with some cool tangible ideas! Smile

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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  Felix on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:49 am

I'm not sure if this is possible but having a spell slot 1, 2, or 3 levels above the current highest level to be used with metamagic. So a level 40 wizard that reached a certain xp threshhold could choose to gain a single lvl 10 spell slot now allowing him to maximize a level 7 spell, empower a level 8 spell, or extend a lvl 9 spell.
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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  TheMothMan on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:44 am

Update to my suggestion list.

The bonuses doesn't have to be stat-related.
It can be quality-of-life changes aswell.


Precipitateness: Adds a fixed duration (1 Turn maybe?) to any Haste-effect applied to the PC, from any source.

Determination: Makes any spell applied to the PC harder to dispel (+5 caster levels in the dispel-check?).

Grudge: Gives the PC an undispellable bonus (+5?) to all Saves and Skill-checks (Like Discipline) for a period after dying (10 minutes?).

Golem Fist: Adds a bonus (+10?) to all Auto-knockdown check (both defense and offense).

Apothecary: Using an allies PC Corpse on this PC will resurrect them (unlimted uses, both allies and PC can use the corpse on the PC).

Retention: Decreased the XP lost upon death for the PC by a fixed value (1500?).

Greed: NPC's spawned my the PC will carry more gold coins (10%?).

Strong Back: Relics and NPC Corpses carried by the PC will weight a lot less (90?).

Master Crafter: Adds a fixed amount (200?) of ATS points to a specific ATS skill. Can be taken multiple times.

Vendor: Grants a fixed (4%?) bonus in all shops. Stacks with Appraise-bonuses.

I-use-hair-products: Lets the PC retain the bonuses from the Helmet even when it's removed. Equipping any helmet will remove the bonuses (won't work if polymorphed).

Boy/Girl Scout: The PC can rest for free in any Forest-area.

Additions:

Strategist: Any associate (summon, companion, familiar and so on) gains a +5% to all stats (applied after fixed buffs but before any buffs from PC's).

Juggernaut: Reduces the duration of any Disabling Effect by 1 second, except Knockdown (it's hardcoded).

Light Sleeper: PC can rest every 5 Hours instead of every 8 Hours.

Keen Rider: Grants PC a fixed additional movement speed buff (+15?) while on a mount.


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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  Felix on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:21 am

TheMothMan wrote:Golem Fist: Adds a bonus (+10?) to all Auto-knockdown check (both defense and offense).
Doesn't auto kd only apply in PvM?

Do you think a spell slot higher than highest level is too powerful or just undo able?
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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

Post  Rann Cora on Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:44 am

I like Felix's idea if it's possible. Seems like a fitting reward for a mage who puts in all that time.

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Re: Progression beyond level 40.

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