Shifters; What are they!?

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Shifters; What are they!?

Post  TheeVals on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:09 pm

What type should they be counted as?

Melee Classes, Caster Classes, Sneaker Classes.


Here is the ingame journal list.

Melee;

Fighter, Barbarian, Monk, Paladin, Blackgaurd, Champion of Torm, Weapon Master, Dwarven Defender, Ranger, Harper Scout, Bard, Red Dragon Disciple, Purple Dragon Knight

Caster;

Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Pale Master, Harper Scout, Bard, Red Dragon Disciple

Sneaker;

Rogue, Assassin, Shadow Dancer, Harper Scout, Ranger, Monk

------------------
Not to sure how this classification works, since some classes are classified as melee, when they have spells etc...
but....

I think Shifter should be considered both Melee and Caster just like the RDD. Since the RDD has shapes pertaining to casting and melee.

Shifter also has sneaker shapes but only about 3 or 4.
So...
For those who think shifter shouldn't be listed due to how its overpowered then lets consider the balance being kept by not counting it as a sneaker class.
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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  Radoc Caren on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:19 pm

Shifter come from Druid.. therefor if you ask me i would say they count as casters. But that just IMO.

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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  Kombat Karl on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:29 pm

I agree, Shifter is a PrC that requires druid levels, thus it is a -casting- class, because the act of shifting is by a means magical, thus I would count it as a casting class.
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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  DM Starbridge on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:40 pm

I would most class Shifter as all of the above since they change into other things for a variety of jobs.
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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  TheeVals on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:48 pm

If someone who used to play moths can chime in and explain what key factors make the classifications the way they are. That would help...

Or we can settle on the compromise of having shifter melee/caster and NOT sneaker.. since overall its considered op as is?


I don't want to cause a whole reclassification of these lists... since RDD is questionable as well... and i want things to remain balanced while remaining realistic.


So is it playing style of the class itself that makes it melee caster sneaker... is it game mechanics?

Are sneakers considered sneakers because they can put points into hide and stealthy each lvl?

Casters putting points into spell craft each lvl?

Razz what causes these classifications?
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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  Felix on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:58 pm

This is what Moths forum says about the subject.
The classifications are made up to restrict DM noted items. An obvious example is high level meleers shouldnt be susceptible to IGMS which there is no save for. So if you are a certain number of melee you can wear a sellable belt that makes IGMS not work very well on you.
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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  J. Persinne on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:35 pm

Giving shifters access to all DM note items would be nuts. First off, let's not do that.

That said, they were pretty solid when Moth hosted the server, but a number of changes were made for the public release: shapes now use the character's base CON, and all of the shape feats require the one "before" it. Though the latter change is somewhat mitigated by the fact that the shape feats also require less WIS, I'm not particularly convinced that shifters play a real role here. Mind you, I haven't crunched the numbers too thoroughly. Maybe they're "all right". (Does anyone want to crunch some numbers here?)

Bear in mind, however, that Druid/Shifters can take a third class to specialize and gain access to DM noted gear without much, if any penalty to their shifting abilities. In fact, I daresay that any shifter should do so. Unmulticlassed shifters losing out on DM note gear isn't really any different than, say, pure rogues losing out on discipline. Sure, it's a shame that they do. But that's why multiclassing is an option: so you can craft the kind of character that you'd like to play.

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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  TheeVals on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:48 pm

How are we allowing shifters to gain access to all dm note things?

Mostly only dm noted things that say melee class caster class sneaker class.

most items are class specific. So considering a shifter a melee class wouldn't make it ok for shifters to use fighter specific gear, etc.
And i also disagree on shifters being considered universal. (all three) Because yes, that is a bit unbalanced and the caster/melee forms out number the sneaker forms.

Thats why i suggest Caster/Melee for shifter.

The cost/balance in game against shifters is the fact that while in forms they can't use items, that balances things out A lot vs characters who can and do use items during battle and pvp.

Then again the character build is only as powerful as the player playing it.
But i have noticed druid/shifter/rogues poping up and no offense to them for my anti shifter being considered sneaker oppinion.
(Up to them to sacrifice having all froms being epic and put in more rogue...)
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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  SnarleysAngel on Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:37 pm

Shifters are not in either for a reason. Shifters are some of the only ways to get +6/+7 weapons. They can get insano DC's and saves and can play roles of either caster, melee, or sneakers. Most the DM noted gear was to give a bump to people who dedicate in their specific class as opposed to those who were well rounded multi-classes.

The RDD class was a late addition to the mod, and probably would have been changed if much more playing or edits had occurred after it came out, as many of it's builds can be out of whack with other max builds on the mod.

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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  cybergrime on Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:17 am

I would certainly have some fun with that. Smile

They are as much a sneaker class as they are melee and caster. They even have stealth skills!

But since they can specialise in anything really well, there is no real need for them to have the restricted items. Many shapes also give certain immunities similar to some properties found on the specialised gear.

The only issue with them is the late change Moth made to their CON, as mentioned above (Same with the melee RDD form).

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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  Dalskap on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:19 pm

If i dont remmeber wrong, the shifters did nto fall under the casueal melee/ranged/caster groups cause they got pretty heavy buffs on their own in the evolved forms, ofcourse the abilities are dependant of shape. Most of all i recall the lich form was almost invunerable to all physical dammage.

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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  SnarleysAngel on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:49 pm

Dalskap!!!

Come Play!

If you are already playing say hiya

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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  Dalskap on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:06 pm

hehh, i promised myself id never play this game ever again after i was done last time.
yet i suddenly got the urge to se if an anph server was still running.. its like drugs i tell you...

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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  Kombat Karl on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:38 pm

hehe.. I know the feeling.. I thought I was done after Cookiephillia... and god.. here I am again.. play'n this god damn f'n server.
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Re: Shifters; What are they!?

Post  DeathWarding on Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:08 pm

Ive noticed their's been alot of shifters lately.

alota different forms running around hehe Like a Star @ heaven
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