Sorry but I have to....

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Sorry but I have to....

Post  SeXy_SnipER on Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:28 pm

Ok I know this has been brought up before and all but I have to bring it up again ... Are we seriously keeping these shades, it is so ridiculously stupid on how easy it makes the grind I don't understand how anyone could enjoy it. Then on top of that all I need to do is summon one of these things in an elite area and have a 2-4 min meat shield in let's say condors? or Emerald tear? It's bad enough that this Anphillia is easy as heck to level up and grind in but now you don't even have to fight anything until level 29 (after Iron hold is when the shades are A LITTLE slow at killing things). Please tell me some of my dedicated Anphillians feel this way also.... at a minimum put like a 10 min delay on summon times between summons.

PS what happens when I'm running through the forest and enemy runs past me with a shadow and the shadow kills me because the enemy "forgot" to unsummon him? it's bound to happen and what are we gonna do bann people on the already small populace we have?. just sayin they are not worth it and they take the fun out of the game.. Sorry for ranting and if i offend anyone by saying this im sorry but when someone says to me "it's a little difficult to level in this game without the shades" theres a problem

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  sniqow on Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:12 am


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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  Rann Cora on Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:27 am

Personally, I think they need to be made immobile. That would make them more of an escape tactic like they were intended to be and less of a super grinding leveling machine. And you could even still use them for grinding if you're smart, but they wouldn't be able to move from room to room or chase down anything. The timelock idea is not a bad idea either though. I'm also for making them not able to be crafted or purchased as scrolls/wands. (For like 5k gold you can craft a 50 use wand of the least shadow spell. It's duration is super low and it's not nearly as powerful as Shades, but it's still crazy.)

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  TheMothMan on Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:16 am

I can only agree.
I've made the changes, but they are not my idea.

I would love to see some other use for them.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  SeXy_SnipER on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:38 am

If the case of being an escape device then that's an awesome idea but then cut them down to 5 secs for the lessers 8 for mediums and 10 for greaters or what ever and make them immobile then they are serving there purpose and not being exploited... it doesn't take 45 seconds to get away from a baddie and make them not extendable ...
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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  sniqow on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:03 pm

This is fucking bullshit. Meanwhile, my character has been bugged since yesterday because people won't stop whining about how they think the game is unbalanced. Instead of looking into a real problem like somone not being able to play at all, it's shit like this.

So...

If I think somethings unbalanced this is how i get my way?

There was nothing wrong with shades, sexy just wouldnt stfu about it like an adult.

No vote, nothing.

I guess if i want a change made I know what to do.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  SeXy_SnipER on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:15 pm

Lol I'm about positive Moth told you how it needs to be fixed ...and I don't understand why I'm getting attacked here I'm voicing my opinion that's all... so why not talk to raven about the action he is going to take with your character and leave me and posts out of it ...thanks
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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  sniqow on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:30 pm

Sorry for the rant

I apologize, I lost my cool...

 I just think there's a certain democratic process that hasn't been respected here that I can't really get over. If you guys (in charge of the server) really agreed than why didn't you make the change sooner, before the damage was done???

Now that one half of the server is months ahead in terms of progress than the other (if people are really able to do emos/condors with these summons) and already beating on the other ones door constantly, it's doesn't feel fair, and that's life I understand.

But in my mind the issue was dealt with, there are other problems to look into. I made the post about my character being bugged and this got changed overnight while my character is unplayable still...

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  TheMothMan on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:19 pm

I'm open to suggestions on what to do with these Shadows.
Worse case we just remove them, but I'm sure we can find some use for them.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  Rann Cora on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:04 pm

Good Lord, fly off the handle much?

I haven't logged in to the game as a DM or player in a month. This topic has been GREATLY debated before, so don't act like this is something new and it just up and got changed. I'm not a host anymore so don't act like I'm responding to a topic without fixing your character. Moth told you what fixing your character takes before he responded. Jesus.

I voiced my opinion on how powerful these were pre-wipe and before I was the host. As a 30th level bard with no extend spell I could pop a shades up on the wall and let it kill an archer on its own before I had to cast another one. This was before anyone really had any clue what has happening with them, so... my bad. I think making them immobile and un-extendable is the best way to go if you want to keep them in a similar function. Or maybe duration 1 second per caster level/2, with automatic extended if caster is pure. As far as ideas for another use for them? I have no clue.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  sniqow on Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:16 am

Not much of what I said there was done reasonably or rationally.

Under the right circumstances I don't have a filter and it get's me into alot of trouble sometimes lol...

Still there's no excuse & I'm not proud of it.

My apologies.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  SeXy_SnipER on Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:08 am

All good me and Sniqow talked it out and it's water under the bridge... I like the idea of making them last a whole lot shorter but i think putting a timelock of like 10 mins makes it so saving it for a run away device is worth it along with making it immobile it would not be used as a open door summon and close door tactic then..
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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  Add9k on Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:32 pm

The whole Shadow and Shades didn't seem like such a big issue to me back when it was 6-7 cleavens vs just me on axfell.. they had a group to lvl up with.. and I had to solo as a wizard. Sadly things got out of control when certain cleavens noticed I out lvled them.
If I knew we had such sore losers on the server... I would have waited till they were lvl 40 before I began/continued to play. Smile

Normally to lvl up in the start it is a common practice to use a summon, usually skeletons... but they can die. Perhaps for the sake of having delevels and xp penalty be a valid punishment again... it's time to either remove the summon that is "invincible" and still attacks things during a time stop.. or balance it out with suitable HP/AC and take off the invincibility.

Maybe up the damage so it's a npc version of that 'Than' build that's popular in cleaven... or make it a tank with enough AC and HP to kill a few mobs before death?

Or if it is going to be trapped in one spot.. make it able to switch between range and melee depending on mob distance. If not just completely ranged with suitable feats to damage mobs right next to it.

Because at the moment the only valid consequence which seems like a punishment on this server would be to get banned either temporary.. but ultimately permanent.
-And if we're going to be overly tolerant just because of the low population.. it wouldn't hurt to be able to delevel characters of a player who... oh.. I don't know.. stole items from another player's inventory... instead of them getting off with a warning or 0 punishment.

Edit; A cleaven player has already summoned a shade inside rustin road - mountain to use in pvp chasing the axfell to rustin road.

So we can't really trust certain players to play the game fair.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  TheMothMan on Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:21 pm

I don't know guys, this whole Immortality thing isn't really in line with the MOD.
It's basically a Summon that exploits the AI, making them burn all their spells for nothing,

I don't have an issue with players using Summons to soak spells per say, it's just if the Summon doesn't die from it, it seems exploiting.

I think we need to change the Summon or even the spell, completely.


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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  sniqow on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:03 am

As much as I'd love to grind to 40 using a shadow summon on my wizard, my sense of fair play tells me I have to agree after hearing other points of view and thinking it over. That and, there shouldn't be rules that punish people that can be fixed with a script/bugfix if possible.

No one should be able to go to high level content on this mod without a proper tank being controlled by a player in a group, just because they have their 4/5/6 books filled with shadow summons or a bag of wands, to me that's wrong and goes against the nature of the RPG. You may as well take fullplate out of the game..

We're at the point where we need Ideas now I guess.


If it was my decision I'd do this:

Make them ranzington faction or make a faction that is not hostile to players cleaven OR axfell if possible.
Remove the 4th circle spell from the game completely but keep the 5+ ones so they can't be wanded, and put a removal script in for any existing wands.
Put them on a 10 minute timer, Give them 600HP and give them some pretty good damage reduction across the board, tone down the damage by 1/3rd and leave it at that.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  Add9k on Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:47 am

sniqow wrote:
If it was my decision I'd do this:

Make them ranzington faction or make a faction that is not hostile to players cleaven OR axfell if possible.
Remove the 4th circle spell from the game completely but keep the 5+ ones so they can't be wanded, and put a removal script in for any existing wands.
Put them on a 10 minute timer, Give them 600HP and give them some pretty good damage reduction across the board, tone down the damage by 1/3rd and leave it at that.
Would there be a way to make them neutral...?
With the script of being able to move/control summons, players could always just force them to attack other players manually?

I know Shades can't be put on a wand, but they can be scribed to a scroll... Noticed a while ago a lot of people leveling up with a temporary umd class most likely for shadow pging...
Good thing the /relevel script only gives the xp amount of the last level... otherwise that would be epicly lame to.. for example; take a umd level at 10 and then relevel that 10th level while having enough xp to lvl up to 21 and so on.  
As for the damage if I can recall from vague memory.. a shade does 2-3 attacks of 30-45 dmg...? crits are between 50-60 dmg?
An extended Shade could kill about 7-8 mithril keepers before despawning
-Been a while so this is just an estimate.

100% accurate info; I know for sure 10-11 extended shades cleared the whole cave.

Definitely think its a good idea to stop this invincibility aspect.

Can the spell also be fixed so it is casted like a buff... so players can't chose the location it spawns.. and it instead spawns behind them?
This could stop players from spawning them up onto the cliffs during assaults. Unless they hug the base of the cliff and take a gamble at getting it spawned up there... This is of course under the premise that it still might be too OP for being used in assaults.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  Darken Rahl on Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:39 am

The only way somebody can get a shades scroll is to buy it. You can't craft it.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  SeXy_SnipER on Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:25 pm

The whole idea of the spell was to make a get away device if your in trouble and you need a quick diversion... so make them do only small amount of damage and last 5-8-10 seconds and put a time lock of 10 mins on it so it doesn't get exploited cause if your needing more then 1 get away device in a row ...prolly shouldn't be there in the first place.

There really is not a need for an ultimate summon anymore, everytime I've played in the past weekish there has been at least one person to play with. Just sayin

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  sniqow on Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:51 pm

There is the 4th circle shadow conjuration summon which can be put on a wand.

With execute command making them neutral wouldn't work.

Agree with Sexy, they should be an 'oh shit' button and not much more. If you're a class that slings spells behind summons in PVE, the ones that are in the game are pretty damn sufficient.

Could just replace the higher level ones with the 4th circle shadow summon and replace the 4th circle one with a weaker form, add a shitton of HP and turn off invuln.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  sniqow on Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:38 am

While you're at it, take the orb from emo's off of the person who abused this summon to get it.

I didn't know how carried away this was already..

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

Post  Add9k on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:10 pm

sniqow wrote:While you're at it, take the orb from emo's off of the person who abused this summon to get it.

I didn't know how carried away this was already..
Chances of that happening are slim to none... at least I've my doubts... that's why I'm waiting for another wipe... without OP summon for players to exploit.

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Re: Sorry but I have to....

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