Spells/Abilities you never use.

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Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  TheMothMan on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:53 am

Hello everyone!

I'm looking to revamp, tweak or even remake spells that are never used.
It might be a spell that you never use because its there is another spell in the same level that's better, its in the "wrong" spell level, it's in the "wrong" spell school, you never find a place and time where it's useful (too situational), you never even bothered to try it or maybe just because it sucks.

No matter what reason, I'd like to know which spells and abilities you never use and why.

As far as Wizards goes, I don't really know how many of you choose a school and how many pick just "General School", but that is surely something to consider when there are two spells that seems to do more or less the same thing.

Anyways, for me to try to make unused spells and abilities used again, I first need to know which ones aren't.
It's also an excuse for me to try to add some more new and unique VFX.Razz

So please let me know which ones you find yourself never using and I will look into them. Smile


-TheMothMan
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  TheMothMan on Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:36 am

I can start off.

Acid Dart; Feels horrible, looks horrible, confusing to use. One of the worse spells I ever made. I never use it.

Impregnable Invelopment; I just end up in a worse position then before I used it.

Ki Damage; I guess it's not that bad, but I never use it.
Hardcoded and cannot be fixed without Haks.
Only the base weapon damage is maximized by this feat. If the weapon deals additional variable damage, it is possible that a ki damage hit will do less than the maximum possible total damage. A ki damage hit will still do more total damage on average than other hits.
On a critical hit ki damage will only maximize one instance of the base damage. Thus a mace with increased multiplier will deal 6 + 2d6 base weapon damage on a ki damage critical hit (as opposed to 3d6 without ki damage).

Dirty Fighting; Goes without saying. Grants a passive bonus so the Feat can sometimes be worth picking. Nonetheless, the Ability from the feat is so so SO bad. Hardcoded and cannot be fixed without Haks.
Dirty fighting can be useful at low levels, but it rapidly loses its net advantage as the character gains more attacks per round. Most players think this feat is nearly useless and should be avoided.

Parry; Too buggy and too pointless. You might catch someone off guard by using it, but still feels just like a novelty.
Hardcoded and cannot be fixed without Haks.
This skill was reduced from its original (pre-release) state and is considerably less effective than it may sound. Parry can only deflect the first attack in each of the three flurries in a round (for example, parrying an opponent with 5 attacks per round will only attempt to block the first, third, and fifth attacks).
Riposte attacks are made with the character's normal (descending) attack bonus, not at full bonus each time. Thus if a character has an attack schedule of +16/+11/+6 and successfully ripostes two attacks, the riposte attacks will be at +16 then +11, not at +16 each time.
Automatic hits (natural 20 attack rolls) cannot be parried.

Everything PDK has?; Does anyone know? I don't even remember this class or what it does. I remember making a lot of changes to it, but how did it turn out? Has anyone ever made one? Very Happy

Silent/Quicken Spell; Right now they are just used as requirements for the Automatic versions. I guess that's ok, I don't know... I really don't wanna give Mages any more tricks anyways. Razz
Hardcoded and cannot be fixed without Haks.

Wild Shape (Druid); I gave these basic animal shapes some love back when there was a major overhaul to the Polymorph-spells in the game. Still, these seem pointless, aside from using them for RP situation.


I'm sure there is much much more, so please let us know what you guys think!

-TheMothMan
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  -terenee- on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:23 am

Is not Dirty Fighting now capable of granting up to +4 damage per attack per weapon?

I understood it that it has a calculated damage bonus to all attacks based on your combined level totals of melee based classes and prestige classes.

Since Weapon Specialization is +2 Damage for only a single weapon and is Fighter only I would think that with it's current changes Dirty Fighting is very useful. I select it often.
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Professor Plum on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:57 am

PDK is awesome! Though the majority use it with RDD. (Which is so totally broken but this is not the topic for that!)

Dirty fighting is awesome, it's potentially as much extra damage as an epic feat!

Wild Shape is also pretty awesome, super-high war cry dc's are sweet. (That said, I think shifted form DC's should be lowered a whole bunch - again, not the topic)

All the iron horn variations are pretty useless IMO.

As for the stuff that you can't change without Haks, you can! You just need to use NWNX.

Silent Spell could be more useful if there were more spells with a silence effect, maybe that's an avenue to explore with some of the changes?
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Wordack on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:04 pm

Dirty fighting is awsome, PDK is execllent for a char heavy guy who wants to melee with the ab buffs .

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Wordack on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:07 pm

Druid forms are pretty useless, the elemental ones are usefull to get you out of trouble other than that go dragon ;p

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Rann Cora on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:16 pm

UMD past 25.

I'm not at my computer, but the level of bard spells that are useful is a little weird. I would love to give up a known 4th level for another known 3rd level, if memory serves. Perhaps moving something up a level, like Prayer, would be a simple fix.

Doesn't parry do ranged concealment?

A lot of my options for selecting spells I could see being useful, but not enough to warrant giving up what I have. There are a ton of options, but several must haves and not enough room to make use of anything beyond the must haves.

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Professor Plum on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:26 pm

Bards don't need more buffs, they need less!

Elemental druid forms are also awesome! Though mostly for PvE silliness, they make for great survivability when you're running away.
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  TheMothMan on Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:10 pm

Good, keep it coming. Smile

I'd like to point out that the focus now is Active Feats/Combat Modes/Spell-like Abilities/Spells.
So even if picking Dirty Fighting is good here because of the passive dmg bonus I gave it and putting points in Parry might be a good idea, due to the permanent Concealment against Range Weapons that I gave it - I still consider them useless as far as Combat Modes go.
No need to censur yourselves or whatever, might aswell speak whatever unused thing that comes to mind, but I'd just wanted to clarify what will be the focus for this overhaul.

As I said, more feedback and viewpoints! Very Happy

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Professor Plum on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:07 pm

Thrust is useless!

It only works if whatever you use it on stands still!
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Rann Cora on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:10 pm

I'm not saying bards need more love, I'm saying that there is really only one viable set of spells with little to no variance. Certain spells are so good, there is no reason to take any of the other options, because they are only situationally useful rather than universally useful, meaning a lot of the spell options could potentially be looked at to make them more attractive in a different way than the current fairly standardized set of bard spells.

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  unknown_user on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:10 pm

Storm of Vengeance - This may be too situational still... I thought it was still a once off cast, but turns out it is back to being an aoe damage over time spell, with no stun but positive damage?

Energy Buffer - Since you can get the same effect with helmets, the casted spell appears much less useful.
Evard's Black Tentacles - low damage, I'm not sure if the white effect does anything?

Crumble - unless it does something super awesome to constructs apart from some more damage... like remove their immunities or weaken them.

Doron's Mistake flower

The spells on the Polymorph (level 4) aside from Fey. The spells on Shapechange aside from Fire Giant and sometimes the outsider. The others are just not as good or too situational.

Wild Shapes apart from monkey are not very useful - monkey has same active spells, and is a thief.

Healing Circle - Does this aoe work properly?

cheers

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Rann Cora on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:49 pm

Just found out that Hail of Arrows now seems to require Line of Sight, so add that to abilities I'll never use (again).

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Rann Cora on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:48 pm

Also, have Lore and Legend Lore make a lore check on everything in your inventory that is unidentified, and if you pass, the item becomes identified. It's incredibly obnoxious to have to examine everything.

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  -terenee- on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:33 am

Smite Good
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Skaldic on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:15 am

Smite good isn't good enough? Shocked Not sure Blackguards would agree with you.

Dismissal and Banishment - Think I have never seen anybody use it. Ever.

Continual Flame - Does it even work? Smile

Glyph of Warding - Since there's an access to Wounding Whispers, which is a better spell and they both cause sonic dmg...

Inflict wounds - Maybe it should give On Hit properties to a weapon, since it's completely useless.

Spell resistance breachable only!

Doron's Mistake - I would love having this spell made "epic" so it could be cast in shape...I'd create my own dragon army! Smile

Also this might be a really stupid idea, but as Steley mentioned, you can get lots of spells from items -> no need to prepare those spells for casting. Maybe removing spells from items would be good.
I remember when they revived old Anphillia (Anphillia Revival) and I was shocked that people playing clerics were taking Trickery Domain only to have an access to improved invisibility Smile
Perhaps cast spell should be made better than the same spell used from an item.

Open Lock - Add one more gate to the Forts' areas which would have DC 100 lock and enemy faction could actually get in.

Quicken spell - it's completely useless since it doesn't stack with Haste and everybody is always hasted.

Silent spell- is good only for extra mass heals (which was rendered by Last Words) or extra Undeath to Death/Destruction/Harm/Heal.

Domains:

Air
The Cleric gains a permanent 15% Immunity to Electrical damage.

Earth
Greater Stoneskin: Grants 30/+6 Damage Reduction equal to 22 points per level up to 225.
- Greater Stoneskin doesn"t work...Kinda makes us who made Earth Domain clerics disappointed.

Evil
The Cleric gains a permanent 20% Immunity to Negative damage and can self-target Aid and Shield of Faith.

Fire
The Cleric gains a permanent 15% Immunity to Fire damage.

Knowledge
The Cleric gains +13 Spot and +13 Listen.

Plant
The Cleric can self-target Regenerate.

Travel
The Cleric is immune to Hold Person and Hold Monster spells.
- Pure cleric should get a Mass Haste version of Haste at level 40.

Water
The Cleric gains a permanent 15% Immunity to Cold damage.

Self Regenerating and dmg immunity except for Positive damage sucks. That's why nobody picks it.
Knowledge...How does spot and listen bonus help?
Trickery might be interesting if somebody came up with a proper build.

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  -terenee- on Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:45 am

I am sure Smite Good is awesome but since there are very, very few areas with good creatures it does not seem nearly as useful as Smite Evil.

I am not suggesting changes to the ability as much as alignments of monsters so it can be used occasionally.
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  -terenee- on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:07 am

Steley wrote:Storm of Vengeance - This may be too situational still... I thought it was still a once off cast, but turns out it is back to being an aoe damage over time spell, with no stun but positive damage?


Steley wrote:
Healing Circle - Does this aoe work properly?

My second 40 was a druid and I had built her around SoV only to discover that it can not be used in PvP defense without a chance of damaging ally players or NPCs and is not very practical soloing as it damages your pets.

Considering this to be the flagship druid spell I hate that I never use it.

As for healing cirlce, I use it, but not often, whether it is worth it's spell slot I do not know.

TheMothMan wrote:
Acid Dart; Feels horrible, looks horrible, confusing to use. One of the worse spells I ever made. I never use it.

Referencing the previous of Storm of Vengence, this is also a druid spell I was indeed disapointed with, even after it's changes I think it is not nearly powerful enough for it's level. I do like the effect

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  SeXy_SnipER on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:38 am

I also built Desmond around Creeping doom/ Storm of vengeance and I just get yelled at when I use them in PVP so I would agree with the above statements.

Clerical fire domain definitely a silly domain to take since aura of hellfire grants better immunity already.

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  SeXy_SnipER on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:49 pm

All the summon shadow and shades spells.... most of them don't do anything and the ones that do are pointless as can be.
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  TheMothMan on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:15 am

SeXy_SnipER wrote:All the summon shadow and shades spells.... most of them don't do anything and the ones that do are pointless as can be.

They are Plot.
Which means they can't take damage or die.
They were intended to be used as decoys or damage-soakers.
But maybe they are useless.

So many good suggestions.
Keep 'em coming!

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Wordack on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:54 am

A dispelling great axe would be cool!

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Felix on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:48 am

Steley wrote:
Doron's Mistake flower
This spell is very useful. I thing its a bit too powerful now.

Steley wrote:
Healing Circle - Does this aoe work properly?
This spell is still broken I think. It heals about 10 hps or something worthless.
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Felix on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:52 am

Skaldic wrote:
Earth
Greater Stoneskin: Grants 30/+6 Damage Reduction equal to 22 points per level up to 225.
- Greater Stoneskin doesn"t work...Kinda makes us who made Earth Domain clerics disappointed.
I thought this had always worked. I will have to look at it.
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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

Post  Wordack on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:14 am

Holy crap just tested dorons mistake i had 8 pale dragonkin only for about 20 seconds though then i hit 1 and they all tried to kill me dangerous spell not worth a level 8 slot though.

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Re: Spells/Abilities you never use.

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