removing chests? good or bad?

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removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Anade on Fri May 11, 2012 10:44 pm

I just realiced they removed all the chests in the game, and i would like to see how many think it is a good idea? and how many that think it's a bad idea. So please leave a vote and maby a comment.

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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Anade on Fri May 11, 2012 10:49 pm

I will start out with my vote.. and it is a big BAD!

I think this solution for ninjalooting is bad, i think it do quite the oposite. It reward players who have done lots of ninja looting and maby have a mule filled up with good loot. Also i feal this inspire more people to be afk, atleast when you were alone or bored before you could go chest hunting. and earn some coins there. Till more came on that you could rp or adventure with.

This solution, just punich those who fight for there loot. And brings new players in a great disadvange becourse they cant get the items you get from looting.
And at last.. If crafting is gonna be ouer only income of coins now, it will be sad... Becourse everyone will be weaponsmith and make daggers.

Well, that is mu opinion.
Let me hear yours.

~Zeb

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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Rugnarie on Fri May 11, 2012 11:01 pm

Completely agreed with everything you wrote.

+takes away the fun aspect of going through the sides of chest looking for something yummy.
+with the nifty bounty thingy you get what...5k total....from the items you could have sold from the chest you usually got around 20 - 50k (per chest!)
--->Waaaay poorer players. And then you find out ONE F*CKING dagger costs 3,4 mil....gth.

(by waay poorer, I have an example - just yesterday, my lvl 36 character, who spent 1,5h by killing and looting, brought back to the ranzington around 300k worth gold loot(items+gold)..
Today, same time, same places, 16k!!!

I think Anade pointed out the main points and I can't think of anything else to add .

Oh, almost forgot It suxx.

edit:
I'm sorry to sound ungrateful...I'm grateful that we have a scripter again...but this is bad. Wink
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Wordack on Sat May 12, 2012 1:08 am

Baddd looting is part of the fun!

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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Felix on Sat May 12, 2012 2:40 am

Besides the junk chests being gone some bosses seemed to be missing along with some higher loot chests. In Emerald Taer there was no loot at the end what so ever. On the ogre cave there was no ogre chieftain. My vote is to revert.
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  StateOfMind on Sat May 12, 2012 2:47 am

Make sure you guy's are checking the bodies as well. The loot from the chests is now on them. Just doing the grass part of the headlands found 2 nuts, boots or hardiness +4, and a few other items that sell for max value. All the stuff from the chests is there, just dispersed amongst the corpses. Not sure if you guys were checking those before. My vote is to keep it, I like the idea of having to pull the loot of the corpses.

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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Rugnarie on Sat May 12, 2012 3:25 am

You could pull the boots from the dead bodies even before...
As for ogre chieftain, When I passed through Seris, He was there, killed him and 98% of the ogres in the cave.
As for Emerald Tear, only "small" chest spawned.
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  TheMothMan on Sat May 12, 2012 5:16 am

The loot is not GONE, it's moved to the corpses.
I felt it important to point that out.

Now the actual amount of loot might need to be tweaked, but yeah.
The plan here is NOT to remove the loot, only the chests that house it.

I just did I run around the fort areas and I feel I got more or less the same amount of loot, maybe a bit less of these necklaces, belt, gloves and boots that we all love to sell - MAYBE.
It's hard to tell after just one run, I've had higher/lower loot runs in the past with the other loot script. It's kinda the point.

Be sure to loot the corpses!

-TheMothMan
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  TheMothMan on Sat May 12, 2012 6:34 am

Alright, I just made a run around the fort in Axfell.
Glade-Goblin Cave-Shrine-Creek-Hags-Point-Bugbears - meaning I skipped a few good areas just to save time for this experiment.

The pure gold gain was 9669 Gold, that would be roughly 10.000 Gold EACH.
Loot I didn't not pick up or sell, but just noted: One dozen Wands, two dozen potions, one dozen trap components, three dozen scrolls, too many arrows, bullets and bolts to count.

Notable Loot was (there was a lot of junk aswell, as always):

1 Golden Thumb
2 Ring of Champoins
1 Cloak of the Guard
3 Fingertips
1 Knuckle of Lymovar
1 Moon belt
3 Altered Will
2 Necklace of Traveller
4 Horn of Chief
2 Golden drop
1 Horn of Goodness/Evil
2 Magi's Experiment
1 Swift Step
1 Ruby Crossbow
2 Silver Tunic
1 Loop Shirt
1 Helm of the Woodlands
1 Helm of Reckless Might
1 Rainbow Armor
1 Crossbow of Accuracy
2 Great Magic Bag
1 Composite Longbow +2
4 Magic Nuts (one dropped by a Bugbear which is a first time for me...)

Total tally, including money spend on ID, 70.693.
Note that I did NOT loot the chests that are still there, as in the time-respawned ones!

From what I can tell, it's just about the same, maybe a bit lower than before.
Or am I wrong?
I don't play as much as I used to and I totally reserve the right to be completely wrong here, hehe.

-TheMothMan

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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Anade on Sat May 12, 2012 6:51 am

Well if loot is on the corpses, it maby isent such a bad idea after all... Just too used to never check the corpses that i dident notice it.

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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  TheMothMan on Sat May 12, 2012 8:05 am

TheMothMan wrote:Module Update: May 12, 2012

(Updates will be in next server reboot)

  • The explosion on the Gate Spell Summons death has been removed.

  • Fixed Tileset graphical bugs in several areas, most noteably Rustin Mountain - Nest.

  • Grenade-like Weapon (Tanglefoot Bags, Thunderstones and so on) will no longer damages friendlies.

  • Fixed some strange spawn locations all around Grand Forest.

  • Added a Bounty (direct gold gain) from killing NPC's.

  • NPC's no longer drop any Gold (with a few exceptions).

  • NPC Loot will be placed on Corpses as oppose to chests. This means all chests associated with NPC's are removed. Having a new loot system will require some tweaking, so please leave feedback about how it works or doesn't.
    Please note that this will NOT affect the timer-respawning chests.


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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  StateOfMind on Sat May 12, 2012 9:13 am

Yeah the big problem is people aren't looting the corpses, after making people aware of that they like the script from what I can tell IG. Was in a party of a few people and we were all getting great gold in the headlands as well. My vote remains keep it.

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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Felix on Sat May 12, 2012 9:28 am

Yea I really didnt check the corpses until near the end of our expedition. The orge chieftain being gone and the single chest in Emerald Taer was unlocked and empty would make me think the place has been ninja looted. More testing is needed from my part.

I sometimes get tired of people not reading the change logs and asking me in game about stuff that is plain as day on the forums and here I am doing the same thing... Sorry Moth.


Last edited by Felix on Sat May 12, 2012 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Lunatik on Sat May 12, 2012 9:30 am

removed by poster


Last edited by hundie66 on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Rugnarie on Sat May 12, 2012 10:13 am

Felix wrote:The orge chieftain being gone and the single chest in Emerald Taer was unlocked and empty would make me think the place has been ninja looted. More testing is needed from my part.

Why would anybody ninjaloot the ogre chieftain since there's no chest?
The Emerald Tear might be my fault...I kill everything in that area unless it's paired with those Battlesoul Divination Something....NPCs that cast heal twice and then use heal from a scroll can kiss my ass. Arcanists, Lyricists and Slayers are okay... Beastmasters are annoying too, but not as much as those clerics. Chests in that mumbamuba area respawned? 'cause I killed those guys too...
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  TheMothMan on Sat May 12, 2012 10:39 am

Oh yeah right, I've suggested this before, didn't I? I had honestly forgotten about that, lol.
But that was just on the Bounty-thingie, right?
I don't really recall.
How did that poll turn out exactly?

Funny you should mention The Hive, since its the only area that has, without doubt, benefited from this change. Razz

  • The chest there are 100% unaffected by this change. I guess you just had some bad luck. It happeneds sometimes. It would be kinda boring in the long run if you found something awesome each time, right?

  • You get gold from all the beetles now, which is 100% more gold than you got from them before. Which was zero gold.

  • The Founder has a CR of 180 and is set to a racial type of a Dragon (as almost all bosses are), giving him a bounty for around 2000g to all players nearby. So it's impossible that you got 43 Gold Bounty from The Founder.


The formula for Bounty gain is;
Code:
    float fCR = GetChallengeRating(oMonster);
    int iGold = FloatToInt(fCR*2.5);
    int nMinus = d3();
    iGold = iGold - nMinus;
    int iRace = GetRacialType(oMonster);
    if(iRace == RACIAL_TYPE_DRAGON){iGold = iGold*5;}
This means the base gold gained from The Founder would be around 180 * 2.5 - 1d3 ~ 450.
Since he has a racial type Dragon, it's ~450*5 =~2250.

Sure, The Founder could drop some +3 Tower Shield or something before and that was kinda nice.
However he still can now - or even better stuff.

The only real difference is that you get money for all the bugs now, which would hardly be considered a bad thing, right?
This is why I find it interesting that you chose The Hive as your example when saying it's a bad system. Razz
I mean all and all it should become a nice sum of gold if you clear out all the bugs and Hive Mothers, right?


The reason Grenades no longer hurts allies is because since that part of the loot is no longer moved to a chest, but are in fact in the NPC's inventory - and they will use it.
And AoE spells that are not friendly towards allies messes up the AI and they start attacking each other, like with Ice Storm back in the day.


You are right about ONE thing however; the sheer amount of loot is slightly less. Mobs will seldom have 4 sets of armor, 2 shields, 2 melee weapons and a longbow in their inventory now.
But just as you said, that's all crap anyways that sell for little to nothing. And it weighs a ton aswell so it's not something you would want to haul back to a Trader for a few gold coins, right?

The only two real downsides I've found so far (I'm sure more will pop up), is that it's somewhat tedious to loot every single corpse, especially if they are clumped together and stack on top of each other.
The other is how the Container Window (since it's actually a container you are looting when looting a corpse) sometimes get stuck and it becomes very iffy.


I really want to point out one thing here, I have no personal agenda to have a loot system like this.
If its not wanted, I will do everything I can to get it removed.
It's suppose to be made for all of you, not for myself or anyone else in the establishment.
This is one attempt to erradicate/lower Ninja looting.
But if it's at the expense of an unwanted loot-system, it's all for nothing and not worth it.


-TheMothMan
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Felix on Sat May 12, 2012 11:00 am

I enabled vote canceling so people can change their votes like I did. I first voted bad because I missed how it worked completely.
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  TheeVals on Sun May 13, 2012 7:29 pm

Havn't got a chance to play and experience the change but from what i've read...

The idea of killing mobs which normally would give you 0 gp now giving you gp does not making losing a chest full of junk with a few goodies worth while.

lore, lockpicking, and disable trap are now useless skills.

('pro'-moths might argue that no one takes lore anyways and can always waste 500gp to identify items... but some people do take lore -less items to id less value on lore.)
(disable trap can still be used if your character sets traps etc, but its no longer vital for treasure gathering since no chests with traps on them.)

This update seems more beneficial to the side which has alot of active players, and provides a disadvantage to players who are solo due to lack of people being online or active. -at least when a fort was empty a player could still have the benefit of collecting treasure while they wait for potential players to log in.
So this promotes afking as much as it promotes activity depending on the number of people online.
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Felix on Sun May 13, 2012 8:52 pm

TheeVals wrote:Havn't got a chance to play and experience the change but from what i've read...

The idea of killing mobs which normally would give you 0 gp now giving you gp does not making losing a chest full of junk with a few goodies worth while.

lore, lockpicking, and disable trap are now useless skills.

I missed this after Moth posted it as well so I will be as gracious as I can while trying to be clear so others will understand as well. The chests which held the 1-3 unique items are still there. Only the junk chests which had tons of stuff in them have been removed however the same amount of items are now found scattered across all the corpses killed in the area. So those skills are still useful.
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  TheMothMan on Mon May 14, 2012 5:45 am

Try it.
Then vote!
Don't form an opinion based on other peoples opinions.
That's how people like George W. Bush gets to be the most powerful man in the world for eight years.

This coming patch I will increase the chance of loot slightly, it feels a bit too low ATM.
These things need a bit of tweaking before they get just right.

We'll see how it turns out at the end of the week.
If it's still not favored, we return all the chests.
And we will try something else to prevent/decrease Invis Looting.


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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Rugnarie on Mon May 14, 2012 6:40 am

or maybe you could have a look at other suggestions. Smile
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  TheMothMan on Mon May 14, 2012 8:08 am

One thing at the time young Padawan.
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  TheMothMan on Mon May 14, 2012 9:15 am

TheeVals wrote:...('pro'-moths might argue that no one takes lore anyways and can always waste 500gp to identify items... but some people do take lore -less items to id less value on lore.)...

TheMothMan wrote:...I really want to point out one thing here, I have no personal agenda to have a loot system like this.
If its not wanted, I will do everything I can to get it removed.
It's suppose to be made for all of you, not for myself or anyone else in the establishment.
This is one attempt to erradicate/lower Ninja looting.
But if it's at the expense of an unwanted loot-system, it's all for nothing and not worth it.
...

-TheMothMan
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Rugnarie on Tue May 15, 2012 2:19 am

I had a different idea just this morning concerning this "great" anti-ninja looting-system.

How about we put the chests back, and make a boss around the chest have 1 key and random npc from mob 2nd key. Chest can't be opened without both keys. That way you gotta kill the boss AND the mobs....There, problem solved.

"Oh! but how about open lock and disable trap skillz?!"
Traps still active and "small chests" still have the locks..

Thoughts?
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Re: removing chests? good or bad?

Post  Felix on Tue May 15, 2012 8:38 am

TheMothMan wrote:
The only two real downsides I've found so far (I'm sure more will pop up), is that it's somewhat tedious to loot every single corpse, especially if they are clumped together and stack on top of each other.
The other is how the Container Window (since it's actually a container you are looting when looting a corpse) sometimes get stuck and it becomes very iffy.

One other downside is that there are a number of areas where there is a space made specifically for a chest. In the absence of a chest that part of the area seems out of place.
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