Balance new players

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Re: Balance new players

Post  TheeVals on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:43 pm

lvl 10 ranz citizen Pc's can apply to defend the city... *nods sagely* might be fun to have a few ranzers around interviening in the city when a cleaven and axfell start flinging insults... enforcing other players to keep their weapons away. Interviewing all the characters with those dragon wings of their business in the city... heck even shifters that run in while in a form like kobold or rak, would be nice to see a ranz guard npc or pc intervien and keep the city safe from the weirdness of anphillia player creativity. xD

Also would be nice for ranz to have a court room and prisons for the odd occasion where... lets say.. people retreat from seris draging creaters with them.. and somehow those creaters ride on the boat back and make their way to the market place. Would be nice to have Ranz Pc's acting as city guards.. to launch an investigation showing up at either fort under either captain's cooperation to find the person responsible for indirectly compromising the security of the city and its inhabinance...

Then again a dm could always provide this rp, but there havn't been any dm quests or rp since thevelvetroom.
but thats intense rp and most of the time people are afk to get to lvl 40, but we can all still dream about rp possibilities!

(keep in mind past few weeks i havn't been in game so not sure how stuff is now, sorry if there are rp dms now i am ignorant to any up-todate happenings.)
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Felix on Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:17 pm

That would be a full blown 3d faction. My suggestion was more of a optional launch pad to either fort and the possibility of staying in Ranz for RP. I dont really like the full blown Ranz faction idea as I feel like the option to join Ranz guard would conflict to much with the focus of the war. Besides it would be tough for level 10s to enforce rules.
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Professor Plum on Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:37 am

Cleaven / Axfell have the same training facilities as Ranz. (The whole island).

Just because people are in Ranzington; doesn't make them citizens of it.

Axfell / Cleaven have plenty of reasons to keep people undercover in Ranzington, people over level 10.

Level != Size (So someone of level 40 wouldn't be considered 4 people in an army, anymore than a level 10)

What's wrong with it, how it is? If people want to start in Ranz, why not just RP it before character creation?
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Felix on Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:09 am

Using logic like this you can pick at all aspects of the way things are in this mod. "Just because I am in Axfell doesn't make me a soldier of Axfell." To clarify if you choose to start in Ranzington you are opting to be a citizen of Ranzington. Saying this won't work for RP reasons is like telling someone they have their imaginary friends name wrong. This is not beyond the realm of and unreasonable as far as RP is concerned. If you don't like it tell us why but please don't use RP as the reason it won't work.

Professor Plum wrote:
Level != Size (So someone of level 40 wouldn't be considered 4 people in an army, anymore than a level 10)
Plum do you really think that anyone is making this argument??? As I said before Ranzington stance could be that citizens have no reason for advanced combat training. (aka level cap)

There is nothing wrong with how things are now we are just aspiring to make things better and I think a change like this would do that.
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Professor Plum on Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:38 am

Using logic like this you can pick at all aspects of the way things are in this mod. "Just because I am in Axfell doesn't make me a soldier of Axfell." To clarify if you choose to start in Ranzington you are opting to be a citizen of Ranzington.

When you join Cleaven / Axfell you ARE militia.

Ranzington is a trading hub, the main link between the island and the mainland. 90% of the people there wouldn't be citizens, why would we enforce that for players?

Plum do you really think that anyone is making this argument??? As I said before Ranzington stance could be that citizens have no reason for advanced combat training. (aka level cap)

Here are some ideas as well. Ranzington relies on its tremendous walls for defense not a large number of troops. Lord Sten would never want Axfell or Cleaven to think its raising a large army of its own to take the island for himself. Even though Ranzington is a rich port city Lord Sten is stingy and doesn't want to pay a large army to stand around for nothing.

I can think of a bazillion reasons why someone, who was living / working in Ranzington (Even a citizen of Ranzington) to have combat training - seeing as they are surrounded by deadly magical creatures and a warzone.
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Wordack on Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:54 am

Original anph actualy had 4 factions , Axfell and cleaven as you know the nutral shilar who lived on seris island and the drow who hated everybody and did give the shilar a taste of death ;p

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Re: Balance new players

Post  Professor Plum on Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:39 pm

Yeh, it just doesn't work without alot of active players.
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Re: Balance new players

Post  -terenee- on Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:15 pm

<null>


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Re: Balance new players

Post  Professor Plum on Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:39 am

Anphillias factions always have and always will be a see-saw.

It tends to balance out without outside intervention; plus I'm completely against forcing anyone to take a certain side.
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Felix on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:56 pm

Professor Plum wrote:When you join Cleaven / Axfell you ARE militia.

Ranzington is a trading hub, the main link between the island and the mainland. 90% of the people there wouldn't be citizens, why would we enforce that for players?
By citizen I mean someone living in Ranz who doesn't make a living from direct combat. We would enforce that for players for the same reason we enforce Cleaven/Axfell being militia. Where do you get that Ranz is made up of only 10% citizens anyway?

Ranz not wanting a large army was in no way meant to be an explanation for a level cap. It was an RP explanation for not having PCs joining Ranz guard. Ranz not wanting their citizens militarizing was an explanation for a level cap.
Professor Plum wrote:I can think of a bazillion reasons why someone, who was living / working in Ranzington (Even a citizen of Ranzington) to have combat training - seeing as they are surrounded by deadly magical creatures and a warzone.
Sure they can have some but its not outlandish that they wouldn't need to or be allowed to have advanced combat training instead relying on the guard who are the professionals.

When it comes down to it we can make rp fit what ever scenario we want within reason. My posts before was to show that all of the above we have discussed are within reason and can have rped justification. Simply saying that they cant work for rp reasons is not a valid argument in this case.

I along with a few others think that opening up an alternate neutral start location in Ranz would lead to fun recruitment rp. There are issues and reason this idea may not work such as everyone becoming Ranz and ruining the war. Thats why having restrictions on PCs in Ranz will make being a citizen a temporary thing save those who are only staying to RP and don't mind their character being personally less powerful to do so. This can be done with congruent rp that has reasonable explanations. Now then, what other concerns are there about this?
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Re: Balance new players

Post  TheeVals on Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:11 am

Professor Plum wrote:
Any PC in Axfell of Cleaven is part of the militia. If they're not doing militia duties, then it's a matter for the council.

I'm quite willing to preside over a hearing and enforce punishment.

I sometimes play a game called Combat Arms, a fps. in this fps there is a quarentine mode where some soldiers get infected. This provides a infected vs non infected battle. Sometimes the soldiers who are selected as infected for the round decide to be decieptive claiming to want to help the non infected soldiers. They are known as "good zombies" (yes people refer to the infected as zombies.. even though there is a difference...).
Anyways to cut this all short.. my point is.. its a rp style, to be a cleaven or an axfell... and try and be friendly or gain trust of an enemy. This is a well known method that i've seen used over serveral different anph servers. Sadly sometimes its not this epic decieptive trick and players are just ignoring the server's war setting -it is sometimes hard to tell the difference between the two.
One can be deemed as acceptable and to try and stop it could be argued as stopping rp or discouraging rp?
I just find it would be better for players to take it apon themselves to roleplay the persona of a char that willingly joined an army and is willing to participate rather than have dm staff or other players ENFORCE rp that should be respected anyways...

There are other nwn servers that are better suited for non-war soldier type roleplay.
I know that sounds a lot like "those players should go play somewhere else." but if players and staff are going to step in to prevent their roleplay if they are determined to roleplay that way, they might end up leaving or just making a new character anyways. Also consider how we might not be able to afford being selective with who players here... (which is why it has been tolerated that some players don't ever roleplay.. and blatently talk in ooc terms... right?)
Where is the line drawn?
_________________________

Side note; those that chose to remain ranz at lvl 10 should abide by the neutrality of the war and repect keeping their nose out of war business and not selling/sharing info between the armys, this should go without saying... but since we have had characters made in a war setting unwilling to fight in a war thats meant to be a willing sign up... best to be blunt and state the obvious right? xD

I can totally see players being lvl 10 ranz roleplaying devious double agents (which is lame... but might be fun rp for them).
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Professor Plum on Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:15 am

By citizen I mean someone living in Ranz who doesn't make a living from direct combat. We would enforce that for players for the same reason we enforce Cleaven/Axfell being militia. Where do you get that Ranz is made up of only 10% citizens anyway?

It was an arbitrary figure, but it makes sense considering everyone that went to the island passed through Ranz to get there. (And plus there aren't alot of fixed houses)

Why would they be able to get to level 10, then? Why would they be able to take anything more than commoner levels?
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Re: Balance new players

Post  -terenee- on Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:48 am

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Re: Balance new players

Post  Felix on Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:07 am

I think you may have misunderstood Thee. I think Plum just meant that you get a key and a ring and are part of the malitia as if you have signed up.

TheeVals wrote:
I can totally see players being lvl 10 ranz roleplaying devious double agents (which is lame... but might be fun rp for them).
It could be really fun rp for everyone.


Professor Plum wrote:
It was an arbitrary figure, but it makes sense considering everyone that went to the island passed through Ranz to get there. (And plus there aren't alot of fixed houses)
There are not any people wondering about in the city either but there are people in the city. It could be the same with houses.

Professor Plum wrote:
Why would they be able to get to level 10, then? Why would they be able to take anything more than commoner levels?
Commoner levels could be an idea. These numbers were just made up rough begining ideas. The real question is do we like the general idea? If so we can figure out the finer details later.
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Professor Plum on Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:31 am

The finer details of capping at level 10, at least it seems to me, are 'Because otherwise it would kill the server'.

That's not a great reason, for me.

I have no problem with people who've shown outstanding roleplay, making a mercenary in Ranz or the like. I just don't like putting in random limitations etc that don't make IC sense.
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Re: Balance new players

Post  TheeVals on Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:03 pm

Professor Plum wrote:The finer details of capping at level 10, at least it seems to me, are 'Because otherwise it would kill the server'.

That's not a great reason, for me.

I have no problem with people who've shown outstanding roleplay, making a mercenary in Ranz or the like. I just don't like putting in random limitations etc that don't make IC sense.

If there is no limitation then you'll get a bunch of ranzers adventuring with cleaven or axfell...

Supose you have 4 players, they all get lvl 10, which is the requirment for recruitment... so one of them joins cleaven, two join axfell.. and the forth stays a ranzer, what are they going to do? who are they going to train with? obviously alone or with a cleaven/axfell.
Which could end up with a situation where cleaven and axfell run into each other and pvp occurs. So the IC reason for players not being able to be higher than lvl 10 and neutral is for the city having to avoid taking responsibility and possible having a bad relationship with either fort in this war. The npcs like lord sten at least.. already encourage that people not get involved in the war.. so discourging people from gaining more power ties into that, and icly any who do gain more power either leave or join a side of the war... its just something added to prevent it from happening. much like a timer on stealthing to prevent a SD from disappearing right away.
I mean.. no one is asking for that limitation to be icly explained with rp, because limitations on the game within reason don't always need an rp explination.

But i think; The city not wanting a citizen ( i.e. a person living inside ranzington...) to upset the balance of neutrality. And its not a far fetched explination that people can't become more skilled or powerful because the city enforces it, by discouraging it.. and the player can then RP their character not being a power hungry type of person... and if player's can't be trusted to rp with respect to the server and its plot.. enforce it by another means such as.. "The god or goddess the city pays tribute to disables residences from developing magical or physical capabilities further than necessary."
or "The magus has a special type of force feild of arcane magic up and the only way to progress is to move to either fort and take part in the war." But that sounds more realistic for entering into epic lvls. Razz there is something cleaven and axfell do to their soldiers that enables them to become epic warriors! xD
Ranzers = lvl 1-20 Razz
min recruitment requirment is lvl 10 (if chosing to start as a ranzer...)
cap can be lvl 20 -that would give current soldiers possible enough time to play a part in the recruitment process by training with a ranzer from lvl 10-20 and converting them to join the war on their side.


Rather then having a fellow soldier.. a recruit.. already joined... helping them only to later on find them having left to switch over and join the other side..essentially equiping and helping prepair an enemy.

(also if we've got lvl 10 or even lvl 20 ranzers about, could finally get a sorta ic ig staff for that there city news paper thingy? that'll be nifty rp)
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Professor Plum on Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:53 pm

If there is no limitation then you'll get a bunch of ranzers adventuring with cleaven or axfell...

Right, and if there is you have a totally unjustifiable OOC limitation on something that's supposed to promote roleplay?

It seems slightly silly.

And its not a far fetched explination that people can't become more skilled or powerful because the city enforces it, by discouraging it

Yes it is, why wouldn't Sten want a powerfull PC, loyal to him about?

He has to maintain a large enough force to warrant himself a threat to some extent to Cleaven, and more importantly, Axfell - or else they'd just take over Ranz. So, all this nonsense about 'ohh, he doesn't want to appear powerful' is... well, nonsense.

no one is asking for that limitation to be icly explained with rp, because limitations on the game within reason don't always need an rp explination.

Ahh, so we're not an RP server? - and this change has nothing to do with promoting RP?

I musta mis-understood it.
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Re: Balance new players

Post  TheeVals on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:20 pm

Professor Plum wrote:
Ahh, so we're not an RP server? - and this change has nothing to do with promoting RP?

I musta mis-understood it.

I'm sad for all the people who thought and might still think this server is an rp server xD
wishful thinking?
--------------------------
Lord Sten wouldn't want powerful PC's because powerful NPC's are better, you can't really argue that a PC is more loyal than the current NPC's... because players are going to play or roleplay like they want to play or roleplay, can't really trust players to do the "right" thing.
(Think of how dm notes had to be enforced with a -5lvl punishment, how a script needed to be put in to prevent banking xp. and most recently you yourself made a post about players in pvp abusing transitions.)
Thats why there are rules being enforced... thats why there would be a level cap.
Its nice, let people join ranz and go on a honor system instructing them to chose a side by the time they are lvl 10... but you should already know the possibility of people lvling past lvl 10 while still neither cleaven nore axfell will happen unless something is in place to stop it.
It wouldn't be the first ooc reasoned limitation on this server for the purpose of improving game play, would it?
(I don't understand your need for an ic reason, is it because it was menchioned to be an attempt to improve rp or encourage rp possibilities? why can't there be ooc things which cause ic to happen? xD)

Anyways, the way i see it is; one side is all like..
"include things that -might- cause rp oppurtunities"
and the counter arguement is "we shouldn't do it because the reason to do it isn't good enough".
So yes, -because i do not understand your mentality and demands- i see your counter arguement as being against it just for the sake of being against it... Shocked

Which does not really matter in any event since;
I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything here.
If you wish to go on thinking that an idea is terrible.. go right ahead.
I believe on the first page of this topic i agreed -with you- that it would never work and i can actually think of many reasons other than "the reason to do it makes no sense or isn't good enough".
Doesn't mean talking in hypothedicals hurts... does it? (i like talking hypothedicals xD )
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Re: Balance new players

Post  Professor Plum on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:28 pm

Lord Sten wouldn't want powerful PC's because powerful NPC's are better, you can't really argue that a PC is more loyal than the current NPC's... because players are going to play or roleplay like they want to play or roleplay, can't really trust players to do the "right" thing.

NPC's and PC's are no different.

why can't there be ooc things which cause ic to happen?

Because people question them and have to adapt around them and it's entirely un-needed; as oppose to say, the spawn system.

Do you not find it awkward running the same area over and over to find fresh troops there, like an army of orcs that managed to hide behind a rock?
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Re: Balance new players

Post  J. Persinne on Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:03 pm

This whole argument is nonsense.

You can justify mechanics ICly. If you're having trouble, then frankly, you haven't tried hard enough. Several (of varying quality, albeit) justifications have been provided already.

That said, I do feel that every change should be weighed with roleplay in mind. Sure, it's popular to declare that "Anphillia is not a real roleplay server" and then leave it at that. But really, the people that espouse this viewpoint are also the ones that shirk and/or deride roleplay and then complain that it doesn't exist; in other words, ninnies.

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Re: Balance new players

Post  TheeVals on Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:42 pm

J. Persinne wrote:
"Anphillia is not a real roleplay server" and then leave it at that. But really, the people that espouse this viewpoint are also the ones that shirk and/or deride roleplay and then complain that it doesn't exist; in other words, ninnies.

I've played on many different anphillia servers which provided a lot of enjoyable roleplay scenerios events and history. More so than not, these anphillia's were low magic and small communities, when a player was online we knew that player was active.

Now thats not to say removing auto xp improved rp, or changing this module to be low magic would make it the best rp server.

I'm just argueing that anphillia can be a real roleplay module, rp is obtainable. NWN is just an old game.. so lets blame nwn, not anphillia (or the players... its not like we're in some rp competition... or are we?) =D
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Re: Balance new players

Post  sniqow on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:51 pm

edit: i hate tiny keyboards and linux
posting from a remote location


I'm going to speak out with some passion here, not trolling or calling anyone out.

Making anph a low magic hardcore RP server like it once was would alienate to much of the current userbase, there would be a wipe, people would still powergame their asses off, unless we had a staff of 6 DM's with 1-2 on hand at any given time to ensure an "authentic experience".. on a good day at peak the server has maybe double that (as in 12) in (active) sometimes more during raids.

Ranzington faction to me would spoil Anph completely, it's been tested on one of the many anph spinoffs and failed miserably. Also it would be abused to no end. and for the record original anph had only 2 factions. I've tried just about every iteration of anph except for the foriegn language ones and some things have been tried and most drastic changes to the core mod fail.

I think what the server needs before we can worry about cleavens problem is to attract new players and retain them, the biggest gap I see is more staff. People who are willing to put their money or in this case time where their mouth is and committ without expecting something in return.


At least 3 trustworthy full time DM's who are ready and willing to committ a large chunk of their free time to DMing, it would have to be people who want to do it with nothing in return would be willing to work together and act as a very small community keeping much of the DM business secret from the players with no exceptions.

IMO giving up your character would be manditory if you wanted to commit to the role of an active quest dm. Playing the role of storyteller should be the reward and the motivation.

A mod with 400 areas, and 3 or 4 committed DM's is as good as a mod with 100000 areas.

I guess this is a call for some bored vets to step up and try DMing, i see alot of guys who just soak on their characters or alts, most who happen to be excellent roleplayers, i can name some axfells who I would like to see in this role for sure.

If this was tried we'd have to be patient, as the best mode of advertisement is word of mouth, somone will eventually come here, see dm's on, see a quest happening, spend a night enjoying the creative efforts of a DM, go back to their amia's ravenlofts or what have you, talk about the experience they just had. Give it 6 months, as long as there is a DM staff with ultimately the succes of the server/mod as their main goal, that is exactly what will happen.

as a side effect, abusive players will get caught being abusive one to many times and get caught in the act, and fall in line or eventually face some concequences, and it will be no big loss, because the playerbase is growing, not like now, where we can't afford to lose players no matter how offensive they are to others.

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Re: Balance new players

Post  Skaldic on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:33 pm

+1 to the DMs.

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Re: Balance new players

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